Custom dirt latemodel

Post your custom large scale projects completed or not here. These are home builds. No factory or mass produced cars please.
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Ok, I'm a little discouraged with the smaller scales and RC in general. Hoping large scale will be what I'm looking for. My 1/10 scale requires a lot of custom pieces made on machines I don't have nor have access to. Everyone wants too much to make these few one off parts.

So, I've abandoned this project momentarily in search of maybe starting a project I was looking forward to instead. A 1/4 scale dirt late model.

I have a few questions and I've found a few answers here and there. First thing I'll build my own chassis, and most of the suspension parts that I can't find suitable doner parts from already manufactured cars. Which seems impossible to find dealers for parts for anything quarter scale or I'm not looking in the right place. But, besides that wheels and tires, shocks, engine and a few other things as I said I plan to pull from most of the cars out there if I can find parts.

The rear suspensions I want setup either 3 or 4 bar, so this means I'll have to run it on a drive shaft setup like a real car. Which means I'll have to either run some sort of trans, or direct off the clutch bell. I don't know the easiest way, but doubt I'll ever find any sort of gear arrangement suitable for a transmission. I seen the thread here about using a grinder for the differential and planned to use that. Since the rear end will be locked, i'll only need one. Which means I'll need to make a case for the ring gear and everything. Then of course comes the "birdcages" which there are already some trailing arms for these cars but no real birdcage setup to run a 4 bar suspension.

I figured with a little ingenuity I could make something work. It will be a lot of work, but hoping everything doesn't turn into, "well to get any farther I need this machined." Or, "All this won't matter till I get this piece machined or figure out another way around it."

Tires and wheels seem expensive, unless BRP has wheels for $14 apiece or am I seeing that wrong? I've looked high and low for correct wheels to adjust stagger and adjust air pressure on 1/4 scale and it's been futile. But, not quite as hard as finding that on 1/10 scale!

Is there a snow balls chance in hell this won't turn into needing lots of custom parts machined or am I pissing in the wind. I have little money for such expensive parts. Just want a functional semi-true to scale late model to play with in my back yard on a small dirt track. All in all, 1/4scale seems a little more user friendly and less upkeep once it's built.

Ps: I've been into RC for over 10 years so I know it's very involved. I just need some direction here! Please any insight would help.
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Anyone have suggestions or maybe links to parts to get started? Or advice, either go for it or make sure I really want it because it's more trouble than it's worth? Lol

Ps, I realize this site gets little traffic, is there a better forum for advice or help for a custom build? Or someone I could get in contact with for parts?
Al Gibson (QSL)
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Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Al Gibson (QSL) »

Pixelfantasies

The site is a little slow right now, people are on vacation. Bob Jefferson (rjeffres@bigpond.net.au) on this site is a good source for sprint cars. John Foster at http://www.quartermortar.com has rear ends, hydraulic brakes and builds chassis; he is a good source for information. Pro 1 racing has dirt racing information at www.Pro1z.com. Any specific requirements e-mail me and I can help locate sources for you (algibson@quarterscalelegends.com). On the http://www.quarterscalelegends.com main page click on the links section, you may find useful information there; I try to keep this updated. This site is all about helping further ¼ scale racing. If you get a chance, look under some of the other Subjects and scan for info that can help, and then send the person with the info you are looking for a note and I am pretty sure they will respond with information. There are a lot of people on this site with awesome manufacturing skills and experience. Please enjoy the site and have a happy new year!
bobjeffreson
1/4 scale GOD
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Joined: September 7th, 2006, 9:03 pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by bobjeffreson »

Pixelf,
Man.... that's a shipload of questions....Whew! Here we go.
My 1/4 scale sprint cars either run 4 bar, 2 front, 2 back, or front coil-over shocks and 2 back bars. Bars are K & S rod, flats ground on the end and hand made aluminium stops, as per full size cars. Various size rod is available.
My first sprint cars from the late 1990's, ran a drive line straight off the clutch drum, via a universal joint to a ally slider shaft. The shaft was attached to a worm drive, from a self propelled lawn mower, or to a locally made quick-change rear-end. A very successful set-up it was.
A 1/2 inch axle through the SP drive or QC was positioned and sprung via "birdcages." These birdcages were made from round ally section and were just large circles that had a bearing in the centre, held in by " C clips". But.... they were a "birdcage", albeit very simple.
Off the BC's hung the radius arm to mid chassis, the torsion arm back to the torsion bar and also a shock to the chassis, as on a full-size sprint car. I still run this rear set-up today, except I now run a chain drive down the centre of the chassis, as they are more durable, lighter and far less expensive than the old set-up. Shocks are readily available from any of the 1/5 scale cars on the market as replacement parts and are very good and well priced.
All of these ideas I'm certain, will transfer to a dirt Late Model chassis.
I trust this is of some assistance.
I know it probably sounds very confusing written down like this. If I can get some photos of my set-up, it will probably help to explain things a little better.
Keep asking those questions bud! I did back in the 1990's when I was new to the hobby and I probably drove people crazy down here......but they all gave me the time and it all helped in some way. So now I'm happy to assist anyone......in the same way :D
I also think you are right about the upkeep. I raced 1/10th scale sprint cars for 15 years here in Sydney and spent a fortune on matched Ni-Cad batteries and expensive replacement parts. 2 stroke fuel cost nothing and goes a long way and 99% of the car is metal and does not break, like plastic.
Welcome to the hobby......mate, I have to tell you now....it's addictive!
I told my wife I really couldn't afford 1 car back in 1998........She just smiled... she knew!!!
Now I have 11 cars....luckily for me....she still smiles!
BJ
Al Gibson (QSL)
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Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Al Gibson (QSL) »

Bob
Thanks for the great response. V/r Al

Pixelfantasies, has any of this helped? Al
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Yes tremendously, I apologize for not responding sooner caught a stomach bug and was rather occupied all night. I am glad I'm not going about this necessarily the wrong way, seems I just need to make the effort to get started now.

First off the rear end setup sounds great, some pictures would be very welcome. You can send them to Pixelfantasies@gmail.com or post them here.

Here are some pics from my 1/10 scale latemodel that I've sidelined due to the problems I mentioned. I may also be able to get the parts for it from some of you guys with machining abilities, hoping it won't cost a fortune like most of the guys that I've approached about making them in the past.

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag1 ... z4diod.jpg
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag1 ... ve4fxa.jpg
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag1 ... glbojr.jpg
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag1 ... 4md2ka.jpg
bobjeffreson
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Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by bobjeffreson »

A couple of books that may assist.....

Image

Image

I've had the Steve Smith Sprint car setup book since I bought my 1st 1/4 scale sprinter in 1998.
1 to 1 transfers to 1 to 4 very easily.
Pixelfantasies
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Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Thanks,I have quite a bit of setup knowledge of dirt track. Can never have enough though!

We raced dirt cars for many years and still have a few chassis sitting around.
PTModIT
1/4 scale guru
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Location: Fort Erie,Ontario.

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by PTModIT »

Hi, 1/4 scale is going to be more expensive than 1/10 scale. There are parts on ebay. Google 1/4 scale Rc and look at the images, There are different setups for the rear axle. Belt ,chain.and again the Skellenger type quick change rear ends. There are pics of chassis designs, front end. There are still a hand full of 1/4 scale manufacturers out there. WCM is getting back into it. These companies have the birdcages etc .Well all the parts really.You need to research which setup is good for your price range.
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

I know they're more expensive to get into it, but up keep on them is essentially a lot lower. My main problem is I no longer buy any off the market kits or ready to run rc's. I've ended up building all my own rock crawlers. Using differentials, transmission, and suspension from existing cars.

I essentially can't get what I want from any kits or ready to run cars, especially with 1/10 scale cars. They're not realistic and that's what I want! That's why I end up building my own and have fun doing it, of course time provided. I know some things aren't quite what I want, and some I don't understand.

With the suspension they seem really close to real cars, just the bird cages are a little different than what I was looking for. But, I can make those the same way I planned to make them for my 1/10 scale car too. I have some plans, just don't know yet how I'll get them made exactly.
Mostly afraid the size I've made them will throw off all the geometry in the rear end. But, that's another story I suppose.
These are from a full sized late model, just for an idea of what I'm looking for. Perhaps someone can point me to something similar, if not again I think I know a way to make them without many hours of machining.
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag1 ... bzncu7.jpg

Another thing, which I suppose is a cost issue. Why no transmissions? I'm afraid that the gear ratio will either be too high if too low if I go direct drive. Gives me little option without a quick change, if I had the tools, I'd make one! Transmission and a quick change! Lol, but just curious.

I am also curious about tires and wheels, I'd really like to be able to adjust air pressure. I know how to do it, just don't know about tires or wheels to accomplish it. Beadlocks would work, but need full rubber tires. Also, no chords in the tires I know would distort them under power. What are the measurements on the wheels? Been trying to think if I could find go kart tires close to the size. What's the outside circumference most people run on tires?

Just more questions, hoping for some answers.
bobjeffreson
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Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by bobjeffreson »

Pf,
Quite a few guys down here run pump up tyres. I haven't taken a real close look, as I run and am happy with the standard Bishops. I think they run Bishops also, seal the ally or plastic rims, glue the tyres on and use push bike valves.
I once asked an ex Australian 1/4 scale sprint car Champ, Matt Turner how much pressure he ran. He came back and I don't think he was joking, saying...."not much in the right rear and almost none in the left rear."
The car did work , however he got a lot more flats than I ever did, not running them! I couldn't see an overall advantage, for all the drama involved.
Pixelfantasies
Newbie
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

I could definitely live without the inflatable tires, just curious. That's how I done them on my rock crawlers, headlock a with small rubber ball plugs inserted into the wheels. They work very well for rock crawling, just as it does in 1:1. I just wasn't sure where they offered tires like that.

Also, if I could find a suitable kart tire to work with chords it would eliminate almost all those problems. Just figured they're all too big, I race karts now instead of full size cars on dirt. Just something I was curious about.
lanegc
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Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by lanegc »

Send me a pm and I will provide the sources for parts that you can easily obtain to build a 30cc drive train that will cost less than $400. complete with NEW motor, gearbox and rear with very little machine work. If you include your e mail I'll send pictures of cars that I have built using these components
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Thanks for the info, I'll look into everything and see if everything will work for what I'm looking for. I appreciate all he help everyone.

Still a little curious about the inflatable tires and wether anyone can find anything close to the pic of the birdcage I posted. Again, u really appreciate this. As soon as I get my Rock Crawler put back together I'll definitely start on this project!
Pixelfantasies
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Joined: December 27th, 2013, 3:06 pm

Re: Custom dirt latemodel

Post by Pixelfantasies »

Those appear to be weld on style that doesn't require the use of a pull bar. Which again I planned to use a "lift arm" setup, with a J bar for center spacing. The ones I posted are floated or can be clamped. But, the way the ones I posted are made are more chassis specific , it allows everything to be mounted to the bird cage. Instead of requiring another bracket mounted to the rear end for shocks.

Also, floating them everything off the axle is suppose to help the entire axle assemble, but there are many situations where a clamped style bird cage is preferred. Those specific bird cages also go with the design of the chassis I emulated, they help with he getting things in the proper location.

I planned to basically have someone machine the two outer vertical pieces, then find a "spacer" the correct width and place it between and drill and tap holes to attach the vertical pieces to the spacer. With the bearings or bushings resting in the vertical pieces. Just a thought, any advice there?
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